Converation thread

Hamas was brought up by Israel in the first place to counter the PLO, creating a much more religiously zealous enemy than ever before, which now hates the Israeli occupiers for their mere existence rather than just colonizing the land. Colonization isn’t even a contestable point here, the Zionists were extremely honest and blunt about their intention to colonize the land in their charter, their words, and their actions. The intent was, from the beginning, bad faith and misguided.

The world didn’t even give the Zionists the land because we felt bad for Jews, Britain handed it to them because it suited their interests to curtail waves of Jewish immigrants to their country. Balfour’s Declaration was the adoption of a perceived solution: take the land theyd promised the Arabs control of, and hand it to the Jews. Balfour himself, along with Churchill and many of the original Zionist supporters and founders, were shockingly antisemitic, and extremely racist towards the Arab peoples who had lived there for generations.

Attacks by Hamas came from the continued and constant suppression of the Gazan population that has left them incapable of accessing basic human needs, construction, medical technologies, clean water, and food supplies for their families. Millions are shoved into the concentration camp that is the remains of Gaza, a land whose population is almost entirely disarmed, displaced, and disseminated from their homes. Many of them have never managed to leave Gaza, nor gained access to clean water because 90% of it is deemed unfit for basic human consumption.

Their desalination plants, hospitals, schools, and shambling apartment buildings have all been completely or partially obliterated, either before the war or after. The entire region of Palestine hasn’t known true peace since Israel formed from Zionist domination, they have been openly, obviously, and publicly mistreated and abused, while the Israelis played the victim every time Arab radicals, fundamentalist Muslim or not, tried to take back what they lost.

That land was there’s, the Israelis didn’t have any claim to that land since the diaspora, and the people who actually do have genetic claims to the land were the Arabs and Arab Jews who’d been there since the diaspora, taking the hits and the oppression over time, yet had few demands or desires for a state as much as mutual respect and safety. Almost all wishes for Zionism came from the outside, from European Jews who’d lost genetic claims to the land they so often espouse. Arab Jews were more often in the way of Zionists, and have been frequently ostracized, arrested, or sometimes even killed for that.

Hamas itself is one tiny piece of the massive historical puzzle, and is irrelevant to the broader political debate in the region. The Palestinian genocide on the other hand, THAT is much more serious and pressing to the debate, and evidence strongly points towards it. Actions made in the West Bank have been strongly linked to heavy amounts of ethnically motivated segregation, intentional decrease of Palestinian birth and safety, lack of resource accessibility, intentional apartheid based upon granting rights by ethnicity and downgrading Palestinians, and so much more. I could go on for days, from specifics to wide ranging details.

There’s no competition, Palestine is the one needing aid, they’re starving, they’re thirsty, they’re unarmed, and they’re suffering. They’ve been given far less than the bare minimum UN recommended assistance, and lack any support or quality healthcare, largely because of Israel itself and it’s open and transparent cleansing of the Palestinian people.

Jews outside the region very rarely had widespread belief they’d get the land back, many tried to settle where they were for the sake of putting down roots and being happy. Most didn’t just CHOOSE to uproot their lives, that started when they already had been by the Nazis, the British just redirected it because the first inclination of most Jewish people was NOT to go back to the Palestine region. Some did, I’m not denying that, but it’s been thousands of years, they can migrate, but they don’t get to decide the matters of everyone else there.

Honestly, it makes me laugh how you believe in the Great Replacement, but when European Jews openly, loudly, and publicly say that they want there to only be Jews in the land, you defend it with ancient history that would make a thousand changes to the rest of the world by its own logic. If we’re gonna give them the land back to make it like 2000 BCE, then we’re gonna give america back to the Indians, and we’re all gonna go back to Europe. There’s no arguments to be made for their “ownership” of the land when it would drastically change the entirety of the globe if it was ACTUALLY morally consistent. And here you are, claiming that I’M the one who lacks consistency.

Oxford definition of colonialism: “the policy or practice of acquiring full or partial political control over another country, occupying it with settlers, and exploiting it economically.” Literally ALL of this has happened in Palestine. They have used the water access from Gaza to fuel their own agriculture, desertifying nearly the entire Gazan territory. Israel controls most of the West Bank, owns over 2/3s of land they colonized by mass migration and economic assistance for military expansion, and indirectly owns the key to Gazan sovereignty. Oh but no, there’s no other big state making this happen… wait no that’s just about every Zionist government funding them, while they give America massive paychecks through AIPAC, while assisting us with weapons development and storage. Literally 100% of Gaza is in severe humanitarian crisis, which is the first time we have EVER measured an area to be as such. That’s how bad it is right now, there’s no justification for this atrocity, not for Hamas’ weak hit to Israel, not for enraged rhetoric from a colonized people.

That definition of genocide quite literally fills the description of what is happening. Israel has been obsessed with establishing Jews as a majority, with heavy amounts of investment put into separating districts in a sort of race-gerrymandering fashion, while othering Arab Jews who lived in the region beforehand as “self-hating” Jews for refusing to support expansion of the Israeli state. Don’t ask me for that confirmation, ask the Deputy Mayor of East Jerusalem, Dennis Prager, the majority of their Knesset members, or even their Defense Minister and Prime Minister themselves.

They have that view, Netanyahu has called the Palestinians less than human, Gallant called them “animals”, the rhetoric, dehumanization, separation, policy, engagement, and violence are all there. There’s nothing to be hidden here. Go to East Jerusalem, visit their settlements in the land the PA is supposedly in charge of. Check the Al-Aqsa mosque, and its history of being attacked during Ramadan by settlers and accosted by Israeli police. Their Knesset leadership consistently calls upon the military to flatten Gaza, to turn it into their own territory with nothing even resembling Palestinians remaining.

Settlers in Gaza have beaten aid truck drivers, thinking they were giving aid to Palestinians, when it was actually for IDF soldiers. They’re that ridiculously conceited, their population is that openly racist. They’re not hiding, just like Zionists didn’t hide the fact that their movement was a colonial movement. The amount of dehumanization is only climbing too. Even before the war, separated and drastically poorer enclaves of Arabs were treated by Israeli Jews as revolting places to silently wish to destroy. Separation is there, it’s real, and it’s open.

They rarely ever punish their own soldiers or leadership for outwardly genocidal statements, they’ve been posting them for years, and even when Hamas hasn’t been an issue, when the PA and Fatah have sided with Israel, they still won’t negotiate with the PA and Fatah. If Hamas disappeared today, they’d find another reason to still invade Rafah, theyve always done it even when Palestinians had used peaceful protest, when they had used their own nonviolent methods of defending themselves. The body committing a genocide cannot be trusted to be a source of information on whether or not they’re doing it, because they’d deny it every time. You don’t ask the people committing it, you ask the people experiencing it and those who are watching it happen, and the answer has consistently been YES from the Palestinians individually and collectively.

They violate the 4th Geneva Convention VERY consistently, they’ve done it at an alarming rate as well, along with 28 binding and internationally required laws and regulations which target basic human rights and anti-colonialist practices. They violated it by assisting in the illegal use of settlements inside of Gaza and the West Bank, by disregarding the rights of Palestinians in their criminal courts which charges minors with a 98% conviction rate, and they ignored the most basic legal requirements for humanitarian aid to the Gaza and West Bank regions.

The IDF doesn’t need to universally wish direct harm upon them, they still commit it nonetheless, their individuals do not on the occasion, but the restive policy of their government has shown little systematic care for the impact they’re having on Gazans. If they cared about casualties and slaughter, they wouldn’t have massacred over 90 doctors, civilians, and children inside the Al-Shifa hospital, they would’ve condemned their own violence and strongly, clearly, and concisely commanded their soldiers to take every measure possible to stop killing, and they would be enforcing it. Instead they commit to policies from the very top of “mowing the grass” in Gaza, even before the war, by bombing indiscriminately to discourage revolt. This is their standard policy, and the only things they ever openly punish are overtly massive calls for genocide form high profile politicians, often with minor punishments and an appeal to the UN that it somehow doesn’t reflect their consistent track record.

I’ve never seen a country that’s defending itself bomb its enemies, who are unable to leave a surrounded city-province, at a rate nearly as high as during the war on Laos. I’ve never seen someone defending themselves go out of their way to slaughter children in an area where their enemies aren’t even around. I’ve never seen a state defending itself by killing over 33 times as many people in one of the most impoverished areas on earth as a response. That’s not defense, that’s a massacre, that’s an atrocity that humanity has failed miserably to condemn. Hamas itself has been compromising more and more to Israel, now dropping a lot of its support for a one-state Palestinian solution, and garnering support for a two-state solution out of sheer desperation. The state of the people of Gaza however is far worse than ever before in their entire history. They have never been more starved, more powerless, and more vulnerable than now, and nothing can ever defend that.

Israel has impoverished the Palestinians, stolen their land, assisted settlers stealing their homes, killed them on an industrial scale, committed deprivation of basic resources, deprived them of a state, destroyed their families, desertified their environment, ruined their desalination plants, violated the 4th Geneva convention at its most basic level, ignored the international community, obliterated all colleges and hospitals in Gaza, pummeled resistance, and forced nonviolent territories to take massive humanitarian costs. This is inexcusable, it is a disgrace to Judaism, it is a violation of all human decency, it is shameful to the planet itself, and it deserves the most severe condemnation in the power of all nations of earth. The fact that Palestinians have not universally despised Jews themselves is a testament to their tolerance, and they have proven they want peace, they lack the guns to prove otherwise, so I ask you, who ACTUALLY wants peace here?