Converation thread

Did they say that? Isn't this a free country, and if you began a small business wouldn't you like to be in control of it?

Well they said "it is their business, the should be able to do what they want", but we literally enacted discrimination laws to prevent private owners from being able to do certain things, like discriminate over personal beliefs/bigotries. So, either they agree that you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate, and they just didn't quite think about what they commented, or they are blatantly saying they believe you should be allowed to discriminate, hence why I asked if they were against the civil rights acts. If you're asking me personally, then no, I actually think that no private individual(s) should hold sole control or ownership over a business; I think all businesses should, at least, belong to the workers themselves, not any private interest(s)...and even then, they should still not be legally allowed to discriminate.

“either they agree that you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate, and they just didn't quite think about what they commented, or they are blatantly saying they believe you should be allowed to discriminate, hence why I asked if they were against the civil rights acts. If you're asking m”

I would recommend writing your statement in a way where it is actually understandable, like explaining who they is in the first sentence of your answer.

If you would like to debate you should reply to this with a more understandable point of view on this matter.

But what I understand is that you think that a customer should be able to force a business to serve them even though it would go against their freedom of practicing their religion. You also state that it would go against the civil rights act to deny service when it is only going against the owners religious beliefs. The civil rights act only dictates that businesses cannot deny services to people based on race, color, religion or national origin. However, the act does not address whether business owners have the right to refuse service based on their own religious beliefs. Read more

This is literally a comment in a thread; the "they" I was referring to (@98WHZX9) is only like 4 or 5 comments up in the thread, which I would have assumed you had read through before responding to my previous comment. In fact, "it is their business, the should be able to do what they want" is literally the entire comment, clearly visible right there in the thread by simply scrolling up. But beyond that, who the "they" is is completely irrelevant, both given the fact that I already gave the entire direct quote I was referencing and also because everyone on here is anonymous anyways. Furthermore, I feel my comment was explicitly clear: no, you should not Read morebe allowed to discriminate, even on the grounds of religion or personal beliefs.

If the owner stated that the policy was to respect his religion and listed many things like on a sign and the customer went against his his religious beliefs or asked for a service that he couldn't based on his religion, he should and would be able to deny service.

Just so it's clear, you are simply arguing that people should be able to discriminate, so long as they make it clear that their policy is to discriminate? Is that genuinely what you're proposing here? That discrimination is okay if you just state that you want to discriminate?

And I would love for you to be more specific in your examples. What exactly are customers doing that "go against his religious beliefs"..? Beyond that, what would be the difference between, say, a religious person denying service to gay people vs a non-religious person denying service to gay people, and why would one be okay but not the other? If you deny a service for all Read morepeople, then that's okay, but denying a service to certain people is not okay; as a classic example, if a baker knows that they will not make a wedding cake for a gay couple, then the only thing they can do to not discriminate would be to not make wedding cakes at all for anyone, which would be a perfectly viable option for a homophobic business owner. They could even put a sign out front, like you suggested, that says "we do not make wedding cakes" or something. But putting up a sign that just says "we do not serve gay people" is blatantly discriminatory, and is fundamentally no different than before the Civil Rights Acts when business owners were allowed to put up signs like "no blacks allowed" and whatnot...it's all still discrimination, and no beliefs or ideologies can exempt you from that, including religion. If you cannot be religious without discriminating, then you either simply shouldn't run a business, or you should be prepared to accept the plethora of lawsuits and other legal issues coming your way, including probable bankruptcy. Your right to practice a religion does not exempt you from laws protecting other people from your personal beliefs.

Not only is that not what slavery is, but no one is even doing that regardless.

More importantly, businesses do not have the right to refuse service for ANY reason, because discrimination is not an allowed reason. If your reason for refusing service to someone is "because they're black/gay/trans/etc.." then that is discrimination, and you will be rightly punished for doing so.

Ironically, we got this law (Civil Rights Act) in the first place partly because of mass boycotts during the Civil Rights movement, which I'm sure you'll be happy to know (/s).

While it is true that businesses cannot refuse service based on race, gender, or sexual orientation as it would be considered discrimination under the Civil Rights Act, it is important to consider the implications of forcing business owners to provide services that go against their deeply held religious beliefs. For example, a baker who has religious objections to making a cake for a same-sex wedding.

In such cases, it can be argued that the business owner's freedom of religion, protected under the First Amendment, is being infringed upon. The question then becomes: where do we draw the…  Read more line between protecting individual rights and preventing discrimination?

I encourage you to consider the balance between the rights of business owners to exercise their religious beliefs and the rights of customers to be free from discrimination. How can we find a middle ground that respects both parties' rights and freedoms?

The middle ground for such instances would be for the religious business owner to ensure that they do not serve ANY customers something that they know they would discriminate over.

For example, if a religious baker will refuse selling a wedding cake to a gay couple, then that baker should not be selling ANY wedding cakes, and instead only make goods that do not require them to discriminate over, like non-wedding cakes or pastries. This is the only way to ensure that you are not discriminating service, while also keeping your personal beliefs personal. If, however, an owner will always discrimi…  Read morenate, regardless of product or service, then they simply should not be in business at all to begin with, since a business should only be serving what they know they won't discriminate with.