Converation thread

“Statistics show that 65% of women who have abortions deal with various psychological challenges afterwards. Abortion does not help women but harms them.”

Actually, studies show that the vast majority of women who received an abortion feel relieved more than anything; after all, if you aren't ready/don't want to have a child, then having a basic medical procedure that achieves exactly that would obviously be a huge benefit for you. In fact, recent studies show that over 95% of women feel they made the right call in having an abortion: https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/416421/five-years-after-abortion-nearly-all-women-say-it-was-right-decision-study

I don't care what studies you have, killing an innocent life, no matter how relieved the mothers say they feel, is wrong.

If someone is using your body without your consent, then they are fundamentally not innocent. Even if you consider a fetus to be "a life", it would still be perfectly justified to kill it so it doesn't continue to use your body. Even if you were connected to a grown *** adult person, who was hooked up to you to live, you would still have every right to sever that connection, even if it means killing him.

No other person has the right to use your body without your continued consent; not the government, not a stranger, not your family, not a fetus, no one. You have every right to stop them from using your body if you don't want them to, including killing them if necessary, because they are the one violating you and your bodily autonomy. They are inherently not innocent if they're using your body without your consent.

I totally get where you're coming from. Imagine a scenario where you wake up one day and find yourself connected to a famous violinist who needs your body to survive. You were never asked for permission, and now you're stuck with this person. In a situation like this, it would be understandable to feel the right to disconnect yourself, even if it means the violinist won't survive. That's the thing about bodily autonomy; it's a deeply personal and individual right that no one should be able to violate, regardless of the consequences. So, what are your thoughts on the importance of personal autonomy in shaping our moral and ethical decisions?

There is a major difference between being pregnant and having a violinist attached to you. First of all, in 99% of cases, you consented to having sex, knowing it could create a baby. It is your fault that you are pregnant, not the baby's. Second, abortion is not simply "unplugging" from the baby. It is ripping its limbs off, crushing its skull, and poisoning it. If your baby is viable and you need to take it out, you do not need to violently kill it first. It has to come out either way, so don't kill it first. Abortion is never necessary, as it is the purposeful killing of a baby.

While I understand the distinction you're making between the violinist analogy and pregnancy, it's important to emphasize that consent to sex isn't necessarily consent to pregnancy. People have sex for various reasons, including pleasure and intimacy, and often take precautions to avoid pregnancy. Despite these precautions, unintended pregnancies still occur. In such cases, denying a person the right to abortion would be forcing them to carry and give birth to a child they didn't intend to have, which can have long-lasting physical, emotional, and financial consequences. <…  Read morebr>
Regarding your description of abortion procedures, it's important to note that the majority of abortions take place in the first trimester, when the fetus is still in the early developmental stages. The methods used in these early-stage abortions are not as you described. For example, medication abortion involves taking pills that induce a miscarriage, similar to a natural miscarriage. Surgical abortions performed in the first trimester also use less invasive methods.

Moreover, later-term abortions, which are quite rare, are often performed in cases where the life or health of the pregnant person is at risk or when the fetus has severe abnormalities. In such cases, abortion can be a medically necessary and compassionate option.

Now, considering the importance of personal autonomy and the various reasons why people might seek an abortion, how do you propose we address unwanted pregnancies and the potential consequences for both the pregnant person and the resulting child?

You're already stepping over the issue: you do not have the right to allow another person to violate the bodily autonomy of others. If someone is fine with you paying for their pregnancy and adoption, then that's okay, but you cannot force them to give up their own consent for you, the fetus, or anyone else.

So it's better to kill the innocent child than the mother to sacrifice nine months of being pregnant? Also, the baby is not violating anyone's consent BECAUSE IT DID NOT CONSENT TO BEING IN THERE! YOU CANNOT KILL IT FOR EXISTING.

The consent of the baby is irrelevant because the baby is the one violating the mother's consent, not the other way around. The baby has no consent, since it is the one using another person's body.

Even if it was a grown adult that was using your body, that person becomes the violator the moment you do not consent to their use of your body. It doesn't matter if you will be fine or not, it doesn't matter if they'll die or not, it doesn't matter whether it's a baby or a full-grown adult, it doesn't matter whether it's sex, pregnancy, a medical procedure, etc...YOU still have the sole right to determine who can or cannot use your body, in any way, for any or no reason. Read moreThere is no "but..." here; no one else has any right to your body, for anything. Not the government, not your partner, not a stranger, not a baby, no one but you. There are no exceptions to this fundamental right.

Here's the thing: if you won't admit that doing an act you know can create life, becoming pregnant, and punishing the innocent baby with death is evil, than you cannot be argued with, so I'm done trying.

Easy: because it's not.

No one who uses another person's body without their consent is innocent; in fact, it is the opposite. Knowingly using another person's body without their consent is evil, and if you think that's okay, then it is you who is against freedom and fundamental human rights.

I agree, I’m very much on the pro-choice side, though when we do abortions, if the fetus is capable of feeling pain, nullify the effect. After all, the fetus is still dependent on the parent until near-term, which is a couple of weeks before birth. If they’re still dependent, then how can we say that the rest of it MUST happen? They’re still a part of the parent, and still reliant on them. Any abortions done after that point are done because of specific circumstances, and even then how does a two-week period make that much of a difference? If we can’t mandate vaccines,…  Read more we can’t mandate that someone go through the traumatic birth of a child, especially when they’re the one hurting during it. The whole pro-life argument also just seems to fail considering that it’s generally supported by the Republican Party, the same party that seems to have little care for welfare laws or keeping the poor afloat, so it’s not really about being pro-life, it’s about being pro-birth.